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My first project here

13 Jul 2014 15:17 #2496 by Domtopia
Replied by Domtopia on topic My first project here
I also did a quick paint over to see how the water could be painted and also to see how a the anatomy would work with a softer skin tone render.

The water was done by painting lots of overlapping patches of grey/white and then I roughly smudged it all.

But, I think the others have a good point to, that the muscle placememnt in her back is a bit off and could do with being looked at. I like her hair though and think that will look good with a bit of work.

Keep it coming Stu!
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13 Jul 2014 15:21 #2498 by kazky
Replied by kazky on topic My first project here
Anymore updates Stuart? It's looking good so far.

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13 Jul 2014 17:15 #2533 by Stuart
Replied by Stuart on topic My first project here
Hi, thanks for your input. I think it may be good if I show you the reference that I'm using for the pose, as it seems like something I'm doing is causing my image to look different:



I have overlaid my lineart which to me looks reasonably good (apart from the little bit by her shoulder), so I'm struggling to see why the pose isn't coming off. Any ideas.

As for the composition, I think you're right, I got carried away with the sky, which I was happy with and so have probably made it into more of a feature than it needs to be. Any ideas how I can get more dynamism in the waves? I'm thinking about maybe turning it so the view is maybe 30 degrees to the line of wave, that way you can get the curve more and some sense of what's behind the wave too. What do you think?

I doubt I'll get much time to work on it today, I did a night shift last night so I'm bushed, but I'll almost certainly have some time at some point tomorrow if not.
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13 Jul 2014 18:40 - 13 Jul 2014 18:42 #2567 by Charlotte
Replied by Charlotte on topic My first project here
I think one reason people don't quite believe the pose is because it's a pose we don't see daily and we don't see certain things we'd expect - like we see one of her shoulders very clearly while the other hardly shows at all. One of those cases when greater accurancy might mean lower believabiilty. But I also think that in cases like these it's either extra important to get the details right, or you'll have to take liberties with the reference and show a bit more of what's expected.

So I did a little line over too, just to show the tiny bits you've missed - they might make her shape more believable, but I'm not making promises...


You've given her jawline a "dent" because of the shading - it's actually pretty much straight. Not sure how close to your ref you want to go but you've drawn her face in a more exact profile: we actually see a bit more of her face, if you look at the forehead, eyebrows and the visible eyelashes from her further eye.

The shoulder, as you mentioned. Probably the biggest mistake, small as it is, because it reduces the believability of the shape of her whole back.

You've put the edge of her ribcage lower than it is which might also confuse viewers as to the shape of her torso. (And possibly the positioning of her boobs.)

The fold where her butt meets her back has been given a bit of a curve, which is what mute mentioned before, it doesn't look quite right. (And I think you could skip the "Y" at the end of her butt crack too, but maybe you didn't intend it to show as clearly once painted...)

I'm not entirely convinced by her fishtail yet, either, but I'm not sure of a good way to draw it without it looking separate from the butt. I think it might be difficult no matter how you draw the tail since there's such a "defined end/edge" to the butt. Looking forward to seeing how you solve that :)
Any an all misspellings are henceforth blamed on the cats.
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13 Jul 2014 18:41 - 13 Jul 2014 18:45 #2568 by Domtopia
Replied by Domtopia on topic My first project here
It may be something as simple as the line weight that the image is using. Try the line work again, but this time keep it light and sketchy. It would be extremely helpful to block in the lighting as mid tones, shadows and highlights (just three simple flat tones to start) so that you will be able to get the muscle structure down as early as possible

I think that the source image is really good. Follow it closely and draw what you see, not what you think you see!

Edit: Just seen Charlie's paint over. I agree with her observations and I suspect she has seen the same thing. So, I will repeat: be sure to draw what you see, not what you think you see!
Everything's on the right!!!

It's like driving abroad!

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13 Jul 2014 19:03 #2580 by Stuart
Replied by Stuart on topic My first project here
Yeah, thanks. I'll edit it tomorrow hopefully. It's amazing the difference a very slight miscalculation of a line makes. I think that as Dom says, the muscle structure will be shown a bit more once the shading is in. Thanks for the paintover Char, it's very helpful.

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13 Jul 2014 20:50 #2604 by Smolin
Replied by Smolin on topic My first project here
This is a good opportunity to think about some basic differences between drawing from photo reference and drawing from life.
When drawing from life, you're observing the forms and making marks that represent those forms. You are processing what you see and clarifying it on paper.
When working from a photo, the assumption is that the processing and clarification has already been done by the camera, and that if we copy the marks in the photo precisely enough, the form will just happen. It never does.
Photo reference is best used as a guidepost for where anatomical features will reside and how they connect with one another.
There are some very subtle features in the photo that become hugely important in establishing the anatomical structures, and can easily be lost in simple line art. (e.g. the very faint line that indicates the vertical edge of the farther scapula, and the top ridge of the closer scapula as it merges into the acromion process.)
When you continue, look at the reference and consider what the torso mass is doing, where the scapulae are facing, how the muscles in the neck are pulling and stretching. Keep an anatomy book handy. Think about simplified 3D shapes for the body parts.
I'll say this: backs are friggin' hard to make look right. If I were painting this I'd chicken out and put her in a sweater!

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13 Jul 2014 21:05 #2610 by Domtopia
Replied by Domtopia on topic My first project here

...the very faint line that indicates the vertical edge of the farther scapula, and the top ridge of the closer scapula as it merges into the acromion process.


He means the shoulder blades and top of the shoulder!

Personally (as Smoly says), I think getting the muscles of the back to look right is the biggest bind. The thoracolumbar fascia muscle (the long muscles that line the spine either side) is probably the must distinctive in this image, so look into it and get that as accurate as you can.

Plus, I think she could do with being just a little longer to give her back the grace you are looking for.

P.S. Listen to the advice Smolin has given. His is some of the finest I have ever received on the previous web site!
Everything's on the right!!!

It's like driving abroad!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Smolin

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13 Jul 2014 22:03 #2659 by Stuart
Replied by Stuart on topic My first project here
I certainly take it on board, though I refuse to chicken out. :p Because I'm a hobby artist I'm not bound by necessity to make a '' 'suitable' image, or to match a design brief, so this represents a real opportunity for me to grow. That being said, I really appreciate the comments and help you guys are giving me. I want to feel like I have made progress here, so I'm carefully trying to take on board your comments.

I'll hopefully get some time this week to keep the momentum up, and I will definitely keep you guys posted. :)

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13 Jul 2014 22:11 #2667 by ClaudeCrow
Replied by ClaudeCrow on topic My first project here
One thing I'd just like to point out in addition to what else has been said is that you might want to also look at the boob line angle. (best sentence ever...) You've turned the straight line of the reference into a curve and so I think this is why the placement may feel off. because you've drawn her breast slightly larger we'd possibly expect it to be slightly lower.

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