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28 Aug 2015 00:33 #12162 by Valence
Yes, I do like the Dune books (the first three at least, the later ones are somewhat repetitive and let's not even think about Sting the Actor in the movie, although I kind of liked the later miniseries) and as such I did recognise the floating Baron straight away. Those legs are creepily familiar.
The picture is improving with more edges, especially the darker left edge to the arm. I was thinking of the cast shadow dropping vertically down from the armpit but perhaps it is unnecessary, the edges you're creating seem to be doing the job of separation as it is. Just keep working and shaping the forms and it should continue to develop well.
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28 Aug 2015 02:07 - 28 Aug 2015 08:35 #12163 by Yian
Right now there are a few immediate issues. First, the anatomy of the figures isn't convincing. Do you have a reference photo? For a complex angle and pose you will need photo reference for it to work. Drawing from your own imagination of something you don't see everyday is never going to work. My suggestion is that, before you render this piece further, find a good reference. The easiest way is ask a friend of yours pose for you. Take a few photos and make sure you light it properly with a consistent light source.

The second issue is the cropping and composition. The negative space of this image is a bit boring. Everything is crammed into the top left corner. This image might make more sense if you zoom out a little more and we can actually see more of Baron Vladmir's body, and a bit more of the figure on the bed. Reworking the composition also means you might have to start from scratch, but at this stage I don't feel very strongly about this composition and this is something that should have been thought out at the drawing stage. It is up to you, of course.

Regarding the silk sheet, you will need reference for that too. Drawing drapery from imagination is never going to work, especially if you want to do a semi-realistic rendering of it. Fortunately you can probably just take a picture of your bed sheet and use that.

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28 Aug 2015 23:40 #12175 by Atto
Val, Yian - Thanks for the feedback, I'm away for a few days now but will take another look at it with fresh eyes when I return though I have already picked up some better reference today.
I'll get the wife to take some photos of me in the pose too so hopefully that will help.
As far as the cropping goes I think once the goblet is rendered and the red of the wine/blood is added it will balance but we'll see how it goes once done.
Thanks again for your time both.
T.C.

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01 Sep 2015 23:00 - 01 Sep 2015 23:03 #12198 by Atto
Ok so after spending 3 rainy muddy days in the middle of a field in Surrey I took another stab at The oh so tasteful 'rape' scene I was working on and finally grew to realise that my rendering skills are not up to the challenge I had set myself. "No!" I hear you cry! "Don't give up!", "Its still in the early stages" and other such supportive comments. Well I'm not giving up but came to the realisation I am trying to stretch myself too far and my frustration is getting the better of me.
More anatomy studies are required, more practice on tone, composition and form.
This is the result.
Now I'm feeling a lot more positive. Yes there are still anatomical issues, yes my rendering is some times heavy handed and yes I'm still scared £$%"less of faces but a happy accident produced that tiny glimmer of hope that I am now tearing into an Atto shaped hole that I can climb through. I'm going to concentrate on Black and White images for the time being (though it looks like we may all be doing the same for a while by the looks of the new monthly challenge) and I'm going to be using refs for everything, yes EVERYTHING.
Study and repetition await but in the distance I see GLORY (or at least a little more competence in my posts)
Edit: Oh jeez her lower leg and hip doesn't match up!!!

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02 Sep 2015 11:49 #12200 by Yian
Why jump into rendering right away? Try to get a good drawing first, work out all the anatomical and proportional issues, then begin rendering.

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02 Sep 2015 13:55 #12201 by Atto
@ Yian,
Why not? I'm trying to develop all my skills at once. Previously I have produced line drawings then rendered after. Surely one informs the other. A pristine line drawing is all very well but taking 4 hours to produce a line drawing and then rendering over it is a waste of time when my rendering skills are so poor that I become frustrated with the end result.
I've read many posts that suggest working across the entire canvas and moving into tone if not colour early on can help ground the subject in a more three dimensional space. Since line is only a representation of the point where tone meets tone then surely this can only aid my anatomical and proportional issues.
If you think there is a reason I should hold off on rendering then please let me know I will consider any advice that you can give as I love your work.
If you are just playing devils advocate in order to help me question my decision making process then thanks as well, self analysis of my methods as well as my results can only help.

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02 Sep 2015 18:39 #12205 by Yian
@Atto

You can't render well if you don't understand why those values are there. And the best way for that to happen is work on your ability to correctly depict forms and structures of the subject. You need to improve your drawings skills and build your rendering skills on top of that.

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