Forrest's Sketchbook of Art Junk!

My first reaction was you use refs all the time! But I guess it's for all your studies and not for the finished pieces. As someone who also never really use references and probably should to a larger extent, I guess that - unless you can take the photo refs you need by yourself - it might be a good idea to try to use references, but only such that are NOT identical to what you're painting? At least if you're afraid of following them too closely (which I tend to do if I have a ref of the exact face for instance...) So, maybe use one ref for the shape of a face and another for the lighting on it or something... Not sure

Perhaps using a stock photo now and then is a good thing. With the image I'm working on now, I used a photo of a bust of Nefertiti for the shading of the face, another photo of a sitting woman for the shading on a hip, my own feet... (And no ref for the initial linework) Maybe it's just too small pieces and a mishmash

I don't know if you get the Imaginefx magazines but if you do the Game of Thrones one (108) had this workshop in it by Miles Johnston. To be honest the linked image probably gives you the base idea anyway. I think perhaps this kind of referencing might be more to your tastes.

There's a lot of range how much professional artists use reference. Some practically set up their exact image for a perfect image, some do it like Miles Johnston and some try and avoid it, like this guy. algenpfleger
They all get quality results so which way you go about your work doesn't really matter.

With or without has its own advantages. Not having to look for the right reference/ hiring a model is obviously a plus but then it might of taken you less time to get it to look right if you'd got a reference so it's hard to say which is best.

Personally I'd say that the freedom that knowing how things work might just swing the balance in the favour of avoiding reference. Especially if you tend to want to do more adventurous poses and create a lot of unreal things.

That said there are a lot of different ways of using reference. You may find that you only want to use it for lighting or for colour. I'd say give it a shot, see how it goes. Does it speed you up/slow you down? Does it make your work look more realistic or does it stiffen it up? Basically go have a play, experiment and try things out ..after all it seems to be what you've been doing so far and that's certainly been paying off.

I believe reference to be very important and the using of it as essential to improving an artist's skills.

Sometimes, a kind of snobbery can creep in with this subject. It's as though not using reference somehow makes an artist superior to one who does.

In my opinion, Forrest, the advice you were given by this pro is really good and I think it will help, not hinder your progress as an artist

I'd say you can always give it shot and see how you feel about it. As others have stated, you studies show how you use them to work on things, which is nice to see your thought processes too. But as for using them for any works you produce, that I feel is something only you will know how it affects it, or whether you want to. So giving it a try should give you that information.

Personally, I never use refs in my work and this is not because I think it makes me better than one who does. It's mainly because I really like the idea that the image that comes out, came directly from my imagination and feels more personal. (to me anyway) And it's also like reading a book for me, with the picture unfolding as I work it up. (But that's just my opinion) - I don't see any problems with using refs, and If I come across a pose, or particular positioning of a body part that I just can't seem to make look right, I will look for a ref to help me with this. ... But I also only do work as a hobby, and think that too may have an influence on whether to use them or not. If your doing work others, or have time frames in which to get this work finished, if using refs would speed up the process that's just another reason one might want to use them? But again, it will always come down to what you feel works better for you.

A lot of replies to this already and I'm afraid I wouldn't be offering anything new. Ref vs non ref has been an ongoing debate that really has no clear 'this is the answer!'. I am a HEAVY reference user. I use a lot of stock photos of models for my work varying from directly capturing how they are posed exactly as I can to just using a small bit. But I don't think I've done a single a work without references unless a horse is involved. I never use references anymore for drawing horses.

I don't know if it's good for me or bad... I've always had live models before and now... that sort of access is very limited to pretty much myself and my dogs. Reference photos have become a very strong staple for me but I think there is HUGE value in being able to also work away from them. I am by no means promoting them for full finished production of a work. I just think playing both sides can't hurt anything. If you don't like working that way, then you can just go back to your own way Like someone said before, there's every kind of professional out there that uses or doesn't use references for their finished works.

I will say that I think the biggest mistakes I've made as an artist is trying to fit my 'style' to how I think people want to see it. I've found way stronger responses from just letting go, not giving a rip and just letting my mind work the way it wants to. I mean, commission work is one thing, but my point is that finding what helps YOU grow for yourself is going to be the best route. References or no

Dang you guys all joined in on this haha. Well I won't do a one on one reply, I'll just say thanks for chiming in. I've always admired the guys like Kim Jung Gi or Brad Rigney or Johannes Voß who don't use reference and I want to be like one of them. It's probably going to be a rougher path to take but I'm willing to take it. I'll probably try reference with this next image but only use it if I'm really stuck on a pose, I'll still do my studies though

Here's some junk yay! I've been in a major art funk the last few days. Been pretty not happy with most things I create, it's weird but it actually helped to just write down the things that I wasn't happy about, not just with my art but with life in general. Then as I was writing it down and feeling like a whiny little emo kid a fly landed on my hand and in my head that fly was telling me in a deep black man's voice, "Shut the hell up and go draw." So I did and that art funk is over now LETS KICK SOME ART ASS!

I think it's good to use refs if you want your painting to be accurate and have a more realistic look or if you're having trouble with a certain pose or look, but it's also important to understand how things work so you can modify it to fit your needs. What I see with a lot of people that use references all the time is that when they don't use them there is a significant difference in their work. You can always tell when they use a reference and they become reliant on that. For example someone could have done an awesome job painting the face because they used a reference but the body looks like it was painted by somebody else because they didn't have a reference for that part. I think it's good to have a bunch of different references before you start drawing or painting but I would use them more as a guide to show you how things work then just copying them exactly because then you're not learning anything. You're just learning how to draw and paint that object in the exact same way as the picture you copied from. It's good to copy the image for practice purposes so you can see how things developed to that point and then use what you learned to modify it for your painting. For me I hardly ever use references because I'm trying to get the quality of my work to be closer to what it would be if I had used a reference. But I'm always observing and studying how things are suppose to look and when I have a problem with something I look for images as a guide, so I have an idea on how things work and then try to apply it. So basically I thinks it's good to do both, but it's important to have your quality of work to be as close as possible to one another.

Great paintings by the way. I've notice that some of your sketches are in a similar style as to what Dave Rapoza has developed. He is a big influence and inspiration of mine. I have bought his tutorial but haven't sat down and watched it yet.

You make some good point mute827. I'm going to experiment with my next image and try using some reference and see how it goes And it totally is based off Dave's style, I'm halfway through his tutorial, I started it a long time ago I just never got around to finishing it ha. Super good though, best gumroad yet.

So today was kinda weird and cluttered, I would do art for a couple hours and then go do something else for another couple hours, yet somehow I did a good amount Including some fun experimenting with Dave Rapoza's style with some Samurai Champloo fan art

Decided to do a bit of streaming, click below if you care to join me and chat and stuff

>>STREAMING<<

Enjoy your work.
Did you sculpt the werewolf head?